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Ken Rogoff is Interviewed about Trump's Warning; Combs' Ex- Assistant Returns to the Stand; Trump Administration Pauses Student Visas; New Polls on Public Trust; Masked ICE Agents Detain Gardener. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 02, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:04]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new this morning, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick says tariffs, quote, "are not going away," as President Trump's trade plans face legal battles. The president warns there will be economic ramifications if the courts step in and block the tariffs.

With us now is Ken Rogoff, economics professor at Harvard.

Professor, great to see you this morning. And if I can, I'd like to take, you know, a big step back from the day to day here, because you've been talking a lot about this, that the impact of what President Trump has done has begun to fundamentally change the U.S. role in the world economy. So, what impact are you already beginning to see there?

KEN ROGOFF, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, HARVARD: Well, I think that foreigners heavily invest into the United States. They hold a lot of our Treasury bills. It gives us a lower interest rate. And I don't think there's any question that they -- they are peddling back. Maybe they were before Trump, but even faster. There's -- very hard to undo this damage. I don't think anyone will ever trust us the same way again.

BERMAN: And I'm reading, you know, this is CNBC this morning has a whole piece where they write about the anywhere but the USA trade. I don't have the acronym right, but the anywhere but the USA trade. That they see some evidence is rising by investors. What do you think of that?

ROGOFF: No. You see that everywhere. There -- I don't want to get into the weeds, but there are a number of technical phenomenon that suggest that indeed there's been pullback.

I mean, Trump's head of his council of economic advisers has a plan that would basically default largely on foreign official holders of U.S. Treasuries. If you're China or even the U.K. and you're holding a lot of U.S. Treasuries and you have this sitting in front of you, and you just saw what he did with tariffs, you're going to think about it. [08:35:02]

So, there -- there's -- there's no question about that.

And then we have other things, like the -- his tax bill has something about taxing foreign investors. So absolutely we're going through a period where our so-called privilege of getting -- to have foreigners hold so much of our debts being called into doubt, and it's going to hurt us for a long time to come. We'll pay a higher interest rate. As you know, John, we have budget deficit and debt problems. And if you have a higher interest rate, they're worse.

BERMAN: You've written -- over the years what you've written about Trump is a little bit nuanced, right? I mean you gave him some credit for assessing some of the economic realities in the United States. And then occasionally over the years, in his first term, pushing things forward and then pulling back when he sees some of the impact and some of the coverage of it.

But what about now when people are talking about the so-called, you know, "taco" effects that Trump always chickens out of the tariffs? Is this a type of thing that's maneuvering in a, in a politically adept way, or the type of thing where he loses credibility?

ROGOFF: Well, I think obviously the reason he's so sensitive about saying he chickens out is because so far it looks like that, that don't just look at the tariff negotiations, look at his dealing with Putin, who maybe now Ukraine is -- the Ukraine strike will make a difference. (INAUDIBLE) where they're seeming racing to get a nuclear bomb. Look at his dealings with other countries, none of whom have signed on.

Now, you know, the whole game is ahead. But what, to your point, in the past he has exhibited pragmatism. He'll -- when something doesn't work, he will pull back, at least in the economic sphere. I don't want to speak of the social one. And I think that's been one of his strengths.

But on these tariffs, he just seems in, you know, obsessed with the idea. And I think that's one of the things people are scaring them. Frankly, if he lost these court cases and there are some very heavy hitter lawyers weighing in on it, I'm not. But if he were to lose, it'd be the best thing that happened to his administration. The tariff, whole tariff war is just a terrible idea for the United States. I still think the damage would be done because people would be worrying about other things.

But, yes, it's -- it's when --

BERMAN: I definitely can go. Yes.

ROGOFF: You know, he -- he seems less pragmatic in Trump 2.

BERMAN: How much damage has been done? How much relatively permanent damage do you think has been done already? ROGOFF: I mean that's hard to assess. I mean I suspect our interest

rate will be a little higher than it would have been otherwise. The dollar is a little bit weaker. I wouldn't overdramatize how much has happened so far. But it is part of a trend. And he's reinforcing it. You know, undermining the rule of law, all of these things.

I -- I think institutions are resilient. But, you know, foreigners look at this and they say, it's not just Trump. You elected Trump. How do I know someone else won't come in and do the same policies? I don't think people are ever going to treat the United States the same. So, I -- you know, I think the damage is lasting. And to our economy.

And, by the way, he wants to close up our trade deficit. He wants to close up how -- how much we're spending relative to how much foreigners are spending on us.

But that means less money's coming in. Our interest rates will be higher. The dollar will be weaker. This is just, you know, maybe partly due to plan, but I think it's a lot unintended damage.

BERMAN: Professor Ken Rogoff, always great to speak with you. Thanks so much for coming on.

ROGOFF: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, we got new reporting this morning on the suspect in custody, accused of launching a flamethrower -- of using a flamethrower on people marching at a rally for Israeli hostages. That rally was in Colorado.

And this morning, quote, "time is of the essence." Schools across the country are scrambling to come up with a plan after the Trump administration paused student visa interviews for international students.

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[08:43:43]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Next hour, the racketeering and sex trafficking trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs picks back up, entering its fourth week of testimony now. And the ex-assistant, the former assistant of Combs, who as we talked last week was granted anonymity, only known publicly as Mia, she's going to return to the stand this morning to face cross-examination. She testified Friday in emotional and painful detail at times about the verbal, physical and sexual abuse she says that she experienced while she was employed by Combs.

Kara Scannell is live outside of court for us once again this morning.

Kara, you've been inside the courtroom, well, for all of it, including all of this testimony of this former assistant. What is expected now today?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. Cross-examination of this witness, who is going under the pseudonym Mia, will resume this morning shortly in about a half an hour or so. On Friday, Combs' team had spent a lot of time showing her and the jury very positive social media posts she made about Combs, where she would call him a legend, her mentor, an inspiration, and accessing (ph) number of them with love you with multiple exclamation points. So, Combs' lawyer asked her incredulously, this is the man who you say sexually assaulted you? Who you say raped you? Who you say gave you this toxic work environment?

[08:45:04]

This is the person? And Mia, though, held her ground. She said, "in an abusive relationship, there's a cycle of violence. I was young and manipulated and eager to survive. Nobody was there to say these things that were happening were wrong. There was nobody around us that ever even flinched at his behavior."

Now, once cross-examination is finished today, there will be redirect by the prosecution. And then the prosecution has a lineup of about four witnesses they intend to call today that will bring the testimony back to the hotels where the freak offs took place. They're expected to call a summary witness, someone that will help the jury connect the dots between hotel visits and escorts and travel records. They're also expected to call an employee, a security officer, from the Intercontinental Hotel. That's the one where we have that videotape showing Combs kicking and dragging Ventura, which prosecutors say occurred after a freak offs. They're also expected to call another hotel witness to bring in more of these records, to show that there were hotel stays, who was at these stays? And then a forensic video expert that the government is calling related to the hotel video footage because there are multiple camera angles, and they're going to explain to the jury how this all came together.

So, that is the lineup for today. And as you say, we're in our fourth week of testimony. The prosecution saying this case is moving a little bit ahead of schedule, and it's possible they could rest sometime next week.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, let's see what happens today.

Kara, thank you so much for that.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, schools across the country are scrambling to figure out how to support international students after the Trump administration put a pause on student visa interviews.

Let's get right to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty.

Sunlen, I just read a great piece you wrote on CNN Digital with the team about -- about all that the schools are trying to do and trying to understand here. What have you learned? SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, the schools

and universities that we spoke to, it's very clear that they are faced with an incredible amount of uncertainty right now, and there's a lot of anxiety going through the schools.

We reached out to about 50 colleges and universities to talk to them about what this directive means to them, and they told us that students are coming to them worried and wanting answers. And frankly, they do not have the answers to give their own students.

One of the schools that we spoke to, Mount Holyoke in Massachusetts, they said that they have an incoming class that involves 140 international students. They say of that group, only 50 of those students right now have secured their visas. So, that means a great majority of their incoming international student class are in limbo right now, uncertain if they're able to secure a visa appointment. Even if they're able to get a visa appointment, if they will be able to get their visa to come here to study in the fall.

But beyond the short term implications, a lot of the schools that we spoke to talked about the very real long term implications that are also on their mind in this moment. The issues of competitive -- competitiveness, staying relevant in the global search for the top talent, and also the very real implications, of course, of recruitment and financial impacts.

And that was the biggest thing that we heard from so many schools that rely on tuition is how long this pause will last. And, frankly, they do not know the answers. And we know from the State Department, who has really defended their decision, a spokesperson calling, saying that every visa adjudication is a national security decision. That giving little comfort to these schools and universities right now who are facing the pressure.

We know, John, that from the State Department they have said more guidance will be issued soon how long this pause will keep up and certainly schools very eager to hear that.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, I mean, they're in limbo. They really are very much in limbo right now. And they don't know how to support so many of these students, let alone their financial future.

Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much for sharing your reporting on this.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Americans are sending a message and news CNN polling showing that neither Republicans nor Democrats have a clear -- are winning a clear majority of Americans right now when it comes to the economy.

So, what to do about that? And what is inside these numbers and what can be learned from it? CNN's Harry Enten is looking into that.

When it comes to what the message really is, I mean, which parties are faring any better?

HARRY ENGEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Yes, you would think after all of the waves, Kate Bolduan, after the last few months, the first five months of the Donald Trump presidency, right, the first four months of the Donald Trump presidency, that you'd expect that Democrats would have this massive lead on the economy. It ain't so. It ain't so.

The party that is closest to your economic views. In November of 2023, it was the Republicans by 11 points. Now it's still within that range, still within that margin of error, plus eight point advantage for the Republican Party.

How is that possible, Democrats? How is that possible after all the recession fears, after the stock markets been doing all of this, after all the tariffs that Americans are against, and Republicans still hold an eight point lead on the economy. Are you kidding me?

BOLDUAN: This is a CNN -- this is new CNN polling.

ENTEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: How is that -- when we look for trends, how is that trending with other data that you're pulling in?

[08:50:02]

ENTEN: Yes, if it was just this one CNN poll, that would be one thing. But take a look at Reuters/IPSOS. What do we see here? Party with a better economic plan. Well in May of 2024, just before Donald Trump was re-elected president, Republicans had a nine point advantage.

Look at where we are now in May of 2025. The advantage actually went up by three points. Now Republicans have a 12-point advantage when it comes to the party with a better economic plan. And again, this is after months of economic -- supposed economic uncertainty in which the stock market's been going bonkers, in which the tariff wars that Americans are against have been going on. And yet, despite all of that, the Democrats are down by 12 points on the economy. This speaks to Democratic problems on the economy better than basically anything that you could possibly look at.

The Republicans still hold an advantage on the all-important key issue of the day. And that is the reason why, even if Donald Trump's approval ratings are a little bit lower than they used to be, Republicans are not out of the ballgame because they still have a clear advantage on the economy, whether you look at CNN's polls or whether you look at the IPSOS poll right here in which they have a 12- point advantage on the economy, Kate.

BOLDUAN: And also in the CNN data it does show that Republicans are gaining ground in an area that is key relating to all of this, which is when it comes to the middle class.

ENTEN: Yes. You know, historically speaking, which is the party of the middle class has been a huge advantage for Democrats. I have polling from NBC going all the way back since 1989, when Democrats held a 23- point advantage. 2016, a 17-point advantage.

But by this decade, we already started seeing declines back in 2022 where you saw that Democrats led, but only by four points, well within the margin of error. And now in our latest CNN poll, among registered voters, which is the party of the middle class, it is tied. This, I think, speaks to Democratic ills more than anything else. They have traditionally been the party of the middle class.

No more. Donald Trump and the Republican Party have taken that mantle away. And now a key advantage for Democrats historically has gone Adios amigos. And now there is no party that is the party of the middle class. Republicans have completely closed the gap, Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, there's a lot of messages and a lot to be learned from these numbers and this data.

It's good to see you, Harry. Thank you so much.

ENTEN: Nice to see you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, an athlete takes home two state championship titles. The reason that that's controversial is she's the transgender athlete at the center of President Trump's threat to cut federal funding to California if she was allowed to compete.

And nearly 90 wildfires burning out of control across thousands of acres in Canada. How the smoke is now threatening cities in the United States.

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[08:56:59]

BOLDUAN: This morning, more than 170 active wildfires are burning across western and central Canada, and fire officials say like 89 of them are burning out of control right now. The fires have forced 25,000 people to evacuate across three provinces, and that includes 17,000 people evacuated in hard hit Manitoba, the biggest evacuation in that province in recent memory, according to folks there. Smoke from the fires is also now beginning to impact portions of the United States, triggering air quality warnings across the Midwest and the Great Lakes region.

A California transgender high school student -- high school athlete reached the podium in all three of their events Saturday. The athlete at the center -- this is also the athlete at the center of President Trump's threat to cut federal funding to California if the athlete was allowed to participate in the state track and field championships. Now, this high school junior took first place in the high jump and the triple jump, and finished second place in the long jump. The state's high school sports governing body announced a new rule ahead of the competition that would only apply to this specific meet, saying, if a transgender athlete earned a medal in any event, they would share the title with the runner up.

John. BERMAN: All right, new reporting this morning reveals that immigration

agents are targeting migrants in courthouses. Sometimes moments after pleading their cases before a judge. It's the latest in a series of moves by the Trump administration to speed up the pace of immigration arrests.

Separately, in a video shot by two business owners, masked ICE agents detained a gardener while he was working. The agents arrived in black cars, dressed in military clothing, or tactical clothing, and forced him into a car without identifying themselves.

CNN's Rafael Romo has the latest on this.

Rafael, what are you learning?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning.

Agents from seemingly multiple law enforcement agencies showed up at a business in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, Friday morning. The agents had their faces covered. Immigration and Customs -- Customs Enforcement has confirmed to CNN in a statement that they were, in fact, federal law enforcement officers, citing their badges and body armor.

They were there to arrest the man from Colombia. And according to the business owners who shot the following video, they refused to identify themselves, as we will see in this clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have asked for IDs. Can you please tell me that you refuse to give us your IDs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't need to give you IDs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't need to give us IDs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we're federal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not need to give you IDs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, how do we know you're federal?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do we know that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do we know you're federal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: And, John, over the weekend, we spoke with the two business owners who witnessed the operation to arrest the immigrant, and who told us that by their count there were about six agents in four different cars. This is what one of them had to say about how the operation was conducted. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH STINER, BUSINESS OWNER WHO RECORDED ICE ARREST: And I just kept asking them if they had a warrant, if the -- the -- that was private property. That was our office.

[09:00:00]

And they said they didn't need a warrant. And we asked for their ID, and they said they didn't have to give their ID.

(END VIDEO CLIP)