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Isa Soares Tonight

Fed Chair Speaks Following Interest Rate Decision; Fears Grows Over India-Pakistan Conflict; Pakistan Calls Indian Strikes "Act of War"; U.N. Experts Warns of "Escalating Atrocities"; Gaza Population to be "Evacuated" to the South. Cardinals Begin Conclave to Elect New Pope; Federal Reserve Chairman Set to Make Rate Decision; India and Pakistan at Risk of Wider Conflict As Tensions Escalate Between the Two Sides. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired May 07, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, we have our eyes peeled on this chimney

of the Sistine Chapel as the conclave begins at the Vatican to pick a new pope. We go live to Rome for the very latest. Plus, any moment now, we're

expecting a decision from the U.S. Federal Reserve on interest rates. We'll bring that to you.

In fact, I'm hearing now that interest rates are unchanged. We'll have the very latest. And as tensions rise between nuclear powers, India and

Pakistan, the international community calls for restraint. We are keeping, though, a close eye, as I said to you on this Sistine's Chapel chimney at

the Vatican. That's where any time now, we expect to see smoke, might be white, might be black smoke, letting us know whether we have a new pope or

there -- or whether there'll be more voting tomorrow.

We'll begin first with the breaking news just brought to you from the U.S. Federal Reserve, being told that interest rates are unchanged, very much in

line with what we're expecting. Matt Egan is in Washington with the very latest. So, Matt, give us a sense of what the Fed is saying. I know we'll

hear from Jay Powell in about, what? Twenty nine minutes or so. They'll give some sort of clarity and guidance. That's the most important. But

first, break it down what the Fed is saying.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Isa, no change in interest rates. The Federal Reserve voting unanimously to keep rates steady. This shows that

despite immense pressure from the White House, the Fed remains very much in a wait-and-see mode. Which of course, means that interest rates are going

to stay at these elevated levels.

It's going to keep borrowing costs pretty high for consumers and for businesses alike. Now, the Fed's statement put out just a few moments ago

does have some new language. Let me run you through some of the key changes. Now, first off, the Fed says that although swings in net exports

have affected the data, recent indicators suggest that the economy continues to expand at a solid pace.

So, this is a nod to that weaker-than-expected GDP report that showed a contraction. And it suggests that the Fed is not going to overreact to one

confusing GDP report. Now, secondly, Fed officials also say that uncertainty about the economic outlook has increased further, which is

remarkable when you consider just how high uncertainty was when the Fed last met back in March.

Lastly, and this is the key change from the Fed, the new statement says that officials judged that the risks of higher unemployment and higher

inflation have risen. Now, that sums up this very difficult situation that the Fed is in right now, because yes, the trade war does threaten to kill

jobs. And normally, that's something that Fed officials would want to respond with interest rate cuts.

But now, they can't necessarily do that because the trade war can also lift prices. And if the Fed moves too quickly to cut rates, that could also be

inflationary. So, it's just as impossible situation that the Fed finds itself in. Now, this decision today is unlikely to sit well with President

Trump, who has been demanding that the Fed slash interest rates.

He's been personally attacking Fed Chair Jerome Powell, his hand-picked Fed Chairman, and you've got to wonder whether or not this decision is going to

invite even further attacks from the White House. And Isa, now the attention shifts to Powell, who is going to be taking questions later this

hour, and I'm going to be most interested to hear what Powell says about the possibility of interest rate cuts at the next meeting in June, and how

exactly he's thinking about the possibility that tariffs and maybe even shortages ends up making inflation worse. Back to you.

SOARES: Which is exactly what we need to see and what the Fed has said before they decide, of course, to cut and make a better picture, right? In

terms of the state of the economy, we'll sure, of course, bring that. Thank you very much. We'll have more from Fed Chair Jay Powell in about, what?

Twenty two, twenty five minutes or so, and whether when he takes those questions critically on the points that we were just hearing and pressure

from the U.S. President, who has called repeatedly for Jay Powell to step down.

We'll keep our eyes, of course, on the stock markets as we showed you only one -- thought, green arrows, with the exception of the Nasdaq. I'm just

looking at the corner of my eye.

[14:05:00]

Now, a warning from a top Pakistani official that attacks by India are, quote, "an invitation to expand the conflict and could put the long-line

adversaries on the brink of war." Pakistan is vowing to respond to what it's calling corresponding actions after Indian airstrikes killed 31

people. India, for its part, said it struck terrorist infrastructure in both Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

Earlier, my colleague Becky Anderson spoke to Pakistan's Defense Minister, who rejects India's claims that the targets hit were terrorist camps. Have

a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHAWAJA MUHAMMAD ASIF, DEFENSE MINISTER, PAKISTAN: That absolutely no attempt to arrest activities(ph). It's just the imagination, the figment of

imagination of India. They just want to justify it. Whatever they are doing, they'll find time, trying to find a justification for that.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Are you concerned about a direct conflict, a war at this point?

ASIF: Yes, there is a -- there is a possibility of this conflict, expansion of this conflict into a full-fledged war which we are trying to

avoid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: While India blames Pakistan for the massacre of 26 civilians, mostly tourists, in the Indian-administered part of Kashmir last month,

that sparked the latest round of violence between the two rivals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIKRAM MISRI, FOREIGN SECRETARY, INDIA: Earlier this morning, as you would be aware, India exercised its right to respond and preempt as well as deter

more such cross-border attacks. These actions were measured non-escalatory, proportionate and responsible. It was deemed essential that the

perpetrators and planners of the 22nd April attack be brought to justice.

Despite a fortnight having passed since the attacks, there has been no demonstrable step from Pakistan to take action against the terrorist

infrastructure on its territory or on territory under its control. Instead, all it has indulged in are denials and allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Pakistan, meanwhile, says it shot down five Indian Air Force jets. French Intelligence has independently confirmed Pakistan has shot down one

plane, so far, CNN has not been able to independently verify Pakistan's claim to have shot down four others. Our international diplomatic editor

Nic Robertson has the very latest for you, though, from Islamabad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Just after midnight, Pakistan's peace shattered, a wave of Indian missiles

lighting up the sky, rocking the nation, pushing two bitter nuclear armed neighbors to the brink of all-out war. Local resident Waqas Ahmed(ph)

saying fear and terror spread in the people. India says its attack hit nine sites as Pakistan's military mounted its defense.

AHMED SHARIF CHAUDHRY, SPOKESPERSON, PAKISTANI MILITARY: So far, I can confirm you that five Indian aircrafts, including three that fell, one SU-

30 and one MIG-29 have been shot down, and one Heron drone has also been shot down.

ROBERTSON: According to India, the strikes were in response to last month's killing of 26 civilians in Kashmir by militants India says are from

Pakistan, which Islamabad denies.

MISRI: These actions were measured, non-escalatory, proportionate and responsible. They focused on dismantling the terrorist infrastructure and

disabling terrorists likely to be sent across to India.

ROBERTSON: Well, India says it was preempting planned terror attacks, although provided no evidence of that claim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

ROBERTSON: Among the more than two dozen killed in Tuesday night's air raid were children, mosques were damaged, an angered Pakistan has already

vowed to respond.

CHAUDHRY: Pakistan reserves the right and will respond to this aggression at a time, place and means of our own choice.

ROBERTSON: Deadly artillery shelling continues across the de facto border in disputed Kashmir. India warned Pakistan not to take it further.

SOFIYA QURESHI, COLONEL, INDIAN ARMY: It must be said that the Indian armed forces are fully prepared to respond to Pakistani misadventures, if

any, that will escalate the situation.

ROBERTSON: The country's leader, Narendra Modi gathered his top officials on Wednesday in the wake of the strikes which hit deeper inside Pakistan

than any Indian attack for 50 years, long before either nation acquired a nuclear bomb. Nic Robertson, CNN, Islamabad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:10:00]

SOARES: And as we noted, French Intelligence has independently confirmed Pakistan has shot down one plane. So far, CNN, has not been able to

independently verify Pakistan's claim to have shot down four others. Let's get more on this breaking news story. Tim Willasey-Wilsey is a Visiting

Professor of War Studies at King's College London, and a Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute.

He served for 27 years as a British diplomat in Africa, Latin America, Asia and Europe. Tim, great, welcome to the show. You know, we played a little

clip there of the Pakistan's Prime Minister saying that, you know, the military is now authorized to retaliate -- I think they said to undertake

corresponding action. This leaves us in an incredibly dangerous moment. How do we de-escalate from this?

TIM WILLASEY-WILSEY, VISITING PROFESSOR OF WAR STUDIES, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON & SENIOR ASSOCIATE FELLOW, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE: I think

de-escalation at this stage is going to be extremely difficult, because Pakistan is almost certainly going to retaliate. The problem with

Pakistan's position is that there are no terrorist training camps in India to retaliate against.

SOARES: Right, so what will they retaliate against in that case?

WILLASEY-WILSEY: Yes, so, presumably, they will try and avoid mass civilian casualties. So, avoid bombing cities. I suspect their choice will

be air force bases where they can attack Indian military. But, you know, India will see that as escalatory, and then you'll be into then the

retaliation to the retaliation. And at each stage, getting potentially worse.

SOARES: Pakistan's Defense Minister in an interview with my colleague, Becky, said that military is trying -- their military is trying to avoid

cross-border strikes with India becoming a full-fledged war. But at this point, like you say, Tim, when passions are just so incredibly inflamed,

it's hard to take this down while each side is trying to convey deterrence here.

So, who is the player around the world? Who can act as a mediator here? Because traditionally, the United States has been. But we've had very

little, quite honestly, from the United States on this.

WILLASEY-WILSEY: That's right. I mean, in 2000, it was the United States - -

SOARES: Yes --

WILLASEY-WILSEY: And Britain. In 2008, it was the United States, and in 2019, it was the United States. But of course, we now have a President in

the White House who says he doesn't want to be the policeman of the world anymore. And also, he's probably more sympathetic to Prime Minister Modi

than he is to the Pakistanis.

SOARES: And that's quite a shift in terms of alliances over the years.

WILLASEY-WILSEY: Yes. I mean, Pakistan and the United States have always had, you know, a sort of working alliance of sorts. But ever since the

evacuation from Afghanistan in August 2021, the West really has got no need for Pakistan anymore. That's how they see it. So, Pakistan has sort of

reverted to its Chinese alliance, its primary alliance, which was always China.

And I'm not entirely sure that China will be necessarily urging restraint. The people who can urge restraint are Pakistan's creditors. Saudi Arabia,

UAE. These are the people who need to be exerting maximum pressure on Pakistan not to escalate.

SOARES: And speaking of restraint, I mean, we've heard the U.N., we've heard world leaders all calling for restraint. But you and I, we're talking

about this in a break, with so many wars raging around the world right now, you have Ukraine, you have Sudan, you have Gaza, you have Yemen. Do these

words of restraint, do they carry any weight when you're dealing with tit- for-tat --

WILLASEY-WILSEY: No, I think what's happened --

SOARES: With some heightened passions here?

WILLASEY-WILSEY: No, Isa, I think what's happened over the last few years is we've lost leverage because, you know, how can we urge Pakistan to

exercise restraint when we don't urge Netanyahu to exercise restraint, for example? And, you know, you see pictures from Ukraine, from Yemen on the TV

screens every day.

I think -- I think the traditional people, the United States, Britain have probably lost quite a bit of leverage. It's the Saudis, the UAE, it's the

creditors, I think, who have the most -- would have the most impact.

SOARES: So, all eyes now on Pakistan to see how, if and how it retaliates. How do you see this playing out? Because this is incredibly dangerous and

risky moment.

WILLASEY-WILSEY: It is. I mean, in 2019, we were incredibly lucky. There was an escalation in 2019. But fortunately, I mean, this sounds odd, but

the -- an Indian aircraft was shot down, the pilots survived. He was well looked after by the Pakistanis and released to the Indians. And so, that

provided a sort of de-escalatory ladder.

And everyone, you know, finished feeling that they had won. At this stage, we're not there at this stage. At this stage, Pakistan feels that it needs

to respond and --

SOARES: And so -- and so we're going round in circles, Tim. How do you see this playing out? I wonder whether you know what Pakistan said, they had

taken a shot down some of the Indian jets, which we haven't independently been able to confirm, with the exception of one.

[14:15:00]

Is that enough of a deterrent, do you think in in their view, or do you think they will need to show further deterrence?

WILLASEY-WILSEY: I think they'll need to show further deterrence. No, I -- you know, I'm surprised, I have to say, about the shooting down of an

aircraft because I think India, you know, that's what went wrong in 2019. They lost an aircraft. And I think this is why this attack has been

predominantly missiles. So, it's a bit of a puzzle, the shooting down of a -- of an aircraft at the moment.

SOARES: So, very briefly, just lay it out for us. They retaliate -- mostly, you think they -- Pakistan is going to retaliate against military

infrastructure potentially. And then what? India goes further.

WILLASEY-WILSEY: I fear that's what will happen. I mean, what else does Pakistan have to retaliate against? That is the problem. There are no

terrorist training camps in India. So, it's going to have to choose other targets. I hope they take a lot of time to think about it, and I hope

eventually, they are persuaded to desist. But it's a really dangerous moment.

SOARES: Incredibly dangerous moment can become very risky. It can quickly spiral out of control, and like you said, Tim, we have so many crises on

our hands right now, we do not need another -- see another war in the region. Thank you very much, Tim, great, thanks for coming in.

WILLASEY-WILSEY: Thanks very much --

SOARES: Thank you very much. And still to come tonight, a centuries old tradition happening behind closed doors. We'll go live to Rome, do we have

the image of the chimney? No, we don't. As the world waits for the conclave to elect a new pope, we have our eyes on the chimney there. These are live

images. The sun has been setting there on the Vatican.

We'll bring you the very latest from there. And then, first, a strike on schools sheltering displaced families, and now a crowded restaurant. It's

been truly a devastating 24 hours for civilians in Gaza. We'll bring you the very latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: I want to take you straight to the Vatican because we are waiting for the first day of the conclave to wrap up. We are keeping our eyes

peeled on the chimney there of the Sistine Chapel because right now, 133 cardinals have been locked inside the Sistine Chapel to elect a successor

to Pope Francis.

Do keep in mind it is rare for a pontiff to be chosen on the first ballot? People have been gathering you can see there in St. Peter's Square, waiting

for this moment, to be part of this moment in history, to see smoke come out of the Sistine Chapel's chimney, as you all know, if it's white smoke,

habemus papam, you have -- we have a pope.

[14:20:00]

If it's black smoke, they have not -- it means they have not yet reached a decision on who the next pope ought to be. Our Christopher Lamb is live

outside St. Peter's Square, also having his eyes peeled on this chimney. And, you know, it's exciting. I know it's an incredibly important moment

for so many around the world, but it's a truly exciting moment to be part of this. Just give us a sense of what it's like on the ground.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, there's huge anticipation here in St. Peter's. The crowds are gathering in huge numbers.

It's estimated that 30,000 people here, I can see them all the way down the Via della Conciliazione and into the Square. They're expecting any moment

for smoke to go up from the chimney on the top of the Sistine Chapel.

The prediction is that the smoke tonight will be black smoke. It's the first vote that the cardinals are going to have inside the Sistine Chapel,

and it is unlikely that they're going to come to a consensus on a new pope tonight. They only have one round of voting this evening. So, we are

expecting the smoke to be black.

But despite that, there are huge numbers of people here in the Square awaiting for that moment. Of course, now, everyone is finding out about

this election of a pope, at the same time, there's no kind of inside information, no leaks to social media, it is all through the chimney on the

Sistine Chapel, either black smoke or white smoke.

Of course, special chemicals are added to ensure the smoke is black, and also special chemicals to ensure the smoke is white. Now, of course, we

don't know how the cardinals are voting. This is a secret process, but my understanding is, in the first vote is crucial in the conclave because it

sets out where support is for different cardinals.

How many votes will the frontrunners get? How many votes will Cardinal Parolin, the purported frontrunner get tonight? But -- or will there be

some support for other cardinals, for outsider figures? That's the key determining factor on the vote tonight. Of course, we're not going to get

the tally, but we are going to get a sense as time goes on how long this conclave is going to be. A longer conclave, I think, favors an outsider, a

shorter one, more of a frontrunner. Isa.

SOARES: And many of the cardinals in the conclave kind of owe their positions in many ways to Pope Francis, who elected a significant portion.

Does that make it slightly more challenging in reaching a decision?

LAMB: Well, I think the fact is, Pope Francis appointed cardinals from around 70 countries, a lot of them don't know each other very well. They've

been wearing name-badges in the meetings leading up to -- going into the Sistine Chapel. There is a sense that a lot of them are coming from parts

of the world that have never had a cardinal before.

This is a new experience for a lot of them, so it's very unpredictable. I mean, Pope Francis has left one last legacy, and that is an unpredictable

and potentially a messy conclave because there are so many unknowns. There are so many cardinals who are not part of, say, a traditional bloc of

voters.

They come from all over the world. However, there have been some opportunities for them to get to know each other during some major Vatican

assemblies that took place in October and also in October 2023. So, there have been some opportunities for them to get to know each other. But this,

the general sense is that, the cardinals have not really had a huge amount of time to know who each other are.

Of course, there have been a round of meetings and of course, informal meetings taking place to ensure that they can get to know who might be a

candidate. But this is really a wide-open election for the -- for the next pope, and really, I think very unpredictable.

SOARES: Very much indeed. Very quickly, and I'm sorry to throw you this curveball, Christopher, but do you know, has there ever been a pope elected

on the first vote? I mean, for the -- with the first smoke.

LAMB: Well, I think there are a number of candidates that are, you know, being looked at. Some people are talking about the possibility of an

American pope. Cardinal Robert Prevost is being talked about, Chicago-born, prelate who spent a lot of his time working in Peru. He is someone who is

talked of, but also cardinals from the Philippines.

[14:25:00]

Cardinal Tagle, Cardinal David, and also cardinal in France, Cardinal Aveline from Marseille. So, there are a number of different candidates that

have been -- that have been spoken about. I think, you know, it is going to be very uncertain. I think this conclave could go on a bit longer than

other conclaves because of the different makeup of the college of cardinals, but you know, right now, we are waiting for the black smoke or

the white smoke to come out.

There's a huge sense of anticipation here in St. Peter's.

SOARES: Yes, indeed. And just a reminder to viewers that Bergoglio Pope Francis, the late Pope Francis, wasn't among the favorites when he was

elected. So that, you know, like you said, it really is an open field. Thank you very much indeed, Christopher Lamb there, keeping his very close

eye on that chimney.

My next guest is the editor of "Our Sunday Visitor", father Patrick Mary Briscoe joins me now from Rome. Father, great to see you again. Wonderful,

you can join in with that beautiful -- we can see the sun setting just behind you there. Give us a sense, we're keeping our eyes peeled as you and

I are talking on the -- on the chimney. This moment means for so many, again, it's pretty exciting. This being a part of this moment in history.

PATRICK MARY BRISCOE, EDITOR, OUR SUNDAY VISITOR: Absolutely, it's extraordinary. When I went down to the Square today and watched the opening

of the conclave, I was shocked at the silence that fell over the Square when Cardinal Parolin began the liturgy. As the cardinals began to pray,

when they began to sing these ancient chants, the litany of saints, followed by a beautiful hymn to the Holy Spirit, everyone in the Square

stopped moving, and they were all just kind of drawn in by the majesty of it.

And I think it's that transcendent that reach back into the tradition, that kind of very rich prayer that has captivated the world with the process of

electing a pope. You know, it's just such a breath of fresh air, a bit of hope, a bit of light amid so much other news that's happened this day, this

week, this moment in history that's been so heavy.

So, this represents something really quite glorious and really inspiring in the life of the church, but for the world.

SOARES: Indeed, and we can see in the number of people that just really are filling up there, St. Peter's Square as we're waiting with

anticipation, of course, for the first smoke. I assume, father, that this will probably be black smoke as we're hearing from our Vatican

correspondent, very likely that the first stage is black smoke as they try to understand, get a sense of the field of the candidates.

And as our Christopher Lamb was saying, there are more -- there are newer faces, I should say, father, this time around. Does that make, in your

view, this process slightly longer and perhaps even more complex in terms of picking, selecting a pope?

BRISCOE: Absolutely. You can compare it to the election of Pope Benedict XVI. After John Paul II died, Pope Saint John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger

delivered one of the best homilies ever preached in the modern age following the funeral of Pope John Paul II. And it was the funeral -- it

was the homily, rather, that Cardinal Ratzinger preached to open the conclave at the mass, to open the conclave, the mass for the election of

the Roman pontiff.

And his preaching was so compelling, it was so captivating that it really secured his candidacy. And he was thought going into that election as the

likely pope, he, of course, became Pope Benedict XVI. Then when we had the election of Pope Francis, many people had kind of forgotten, it leaked out

in sort of side channels, because of course, it's supposed to be a total secret, an absolute secret.

But cardinals who were in the conclave would have remembered that Pope Francis had been the runner-up when Pope Benedict was elected. And so, his

candidacy --

SOARES: Yes --

BRISCOE: Was kind of floating around. It was moving around in certain circles. But right now, there's really no clear frontrunner. Cardinal

Parolin had emerged as a preferred candidate for many people. He was getting a lot of attention last week. That seems to have dissipated as a

lot of members of the Vatican press and a lot of -- a lot of Vatican experts have really sort of stepped back and said, well, we're really not

so sure at this moment.

SOARES: It is very much an open field as we've seen. It seems every newspaper -- when I was in Rome, every newspaper I read from Italian press

had different candidate -- really is an open field at this moment. We are continuing -- I'm hearing applause. Can we hear applause? I'm hearing

applause. I'm not sure whether they're seeing something different. I'm keeping my eyes peeled, of course, on the chimney.

Oh, there is -- there's a bird there who potentially who has the best view, as I can see of the chimney, the best bird eye view there of the chimney of

the Sistine Chapel. As soon as there are any more news, of course, as soon as we see that smoke, we'll bring that to you. I am seeing a bit more

commotion, I should say, from St. Peter's Square.

Our thanks to father Briscoe as we keep our eyes on that chimney. And still to come tonight, a closer look at the escalation in the India-Pakistan

conflict. I'll speak with Ravi Agrawal, the editor-in-chief of "Foreign Policy Magazine". Plus, we're waiting to hear from Fed Chair Jerome Powell

following that latest rate decision. We'll bring you that as well as it happens. A very busy news hour, do stay right here. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. If you're just joining us, let me bring you up to date with some of the stories we are following. And we are

keeping our eyes very much peeled on Vatican City right now and on that chimney.

Cardinals have been gathering for the first day of the conclave to elect a new pope. We are expecting some sort of decision hopefully in the next half

hour or so. This is their first vote to elect a new pope. As you all know, as we've been discussing here, if the smoke is white, that means we have a

new pope, although it is very unlikely, as we heard from our Vatican correspondent, that will be the case on this first vote. And if it's black

smoke, it means there is no pope. So, we'll keep our eyes peeled on that chimney. As soon as there are any decision from the cardinals, we will

bring that to you.

We have also been bringing, breaking news on the top of the hour, in the last 33 minutes from the Federal Reserve. The Fed chair, Jerome Powell, is

speaking in Washington, as you can see right now, following the Federal Reserve decision. We are monitoring that news conference, and of course

we're bringing developments as it happens. The Fed has decided not to move. So, unchanged. Federal Reserve unchanged at 4.25.

And he did say that the risks of higher inflation that you were speaking and the risks of higher unemployment have risen. That is pretty something

coming from Jay Powell. And as we have been reporting here and as we've been discussing the show for the last few weeks, Jay Powell has faced a lot

of pressure and criticism from U.S. President Trump, who actually appointed him to the position.

President Trump wants to see more action from the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates because of pressures. And he's even threatened, in fact, to

potentially remove Jay Powell, which is not possible to do because of the independence of the Federal Reserve.

[14:35:00]

But what we have seen at the United States, the weaker first quarter GDP growth, and waiting for sort of signs from Jay Powell on the impact of

President Trump's and administration policy when it comes to tariffs that we have seen at this administration put in place around the world and the

impact that potentially has on the U.S. economy.

I'm also keeping my eyes peeled on the stock markets. If we can have them, can we bring them up. I'm seeing only the NASDAQ that is red at this hour.

But it's very much what the guidance is. So, the Dow is up just fractionally, half of a percent, but it's -- S&P is also up, the NASDAQ,

it's the only one that's down. But so much of that may change depending on what Jay Powell says. Not what he does, but what he says. So, we'll keep

our eyes also on those numbers. A lot going on this hour, but do stay right here as we're bringing you the very latest.

In the meantime, I want to return to one of our top stories this hour, and that is a dangerous escalation in the conflict between India and Pakistan.

Pakistan is vowing to retaliate after India launched military strikes on Pakistan and Pakistan-administered Kashmir targeting what it calls

terrorist infrastructure.

It was in response, if you remember, to last month's tourist massacre in Indian-administered Kashmir, which New Delhi blames on Pakistan. Pakistan

says at least 31 people were killed in today's attacks, and Islamabad says five Indian Air Force jets was shot down, and CNN can confirm at least one

jet was shot down.

Cross border shelling has been reported as the two nuclear armed neighbors on the brink, fear of wider conflict. An Indian source says 12 people were

killed in India-administered Kashmir by Pakistani fire. International Community meantime is calling for restraint. The prime minister of Qatar

has expressed deep concern over the situation and says his country supports all efforts to resolve it through dialogue as well as -- and peaceful

means. And British Prime Minister Keir Starmer offered similar sentiments as he addressed parliament earlier today. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Rising tensions between India and Pakistan will be of serious concern for many across Britain. We are

engaging urgently with both countries as well as other international partners, encouraging dialogue, de-escalation and the protection of

civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, joining me now is Ravi Agrawal, editor in chief of Foreign Policy Magazine. And, Ravi, just a heads up, we are keeping our eyes peeled

on the conclave and the chimney. So, if there is a decision, if there is smoke, I will have to interrupt you. So, apologies in advance.

Look, Ravi, I had a discussion with my guest earlier that -- exactly on this, and the fear is that this could escalate incredibly rapidly. This is

very risky what we are seeing right now. We are seeing those growing calls of restraint from leaders around the world. But at the same time, we're

hearing Pakistan's prime minister saying that the military is authorized to retaliate. I mean, this is a precarious moment, just your assessment.

RAVI AGRAWAL, EDITOR IN CHIEF, FOREIGN POLICY: It is precarious. These are two nuclear armed states, and it is also notable that India has gone

further with these attacks into Pakistani territory than at any moment since 1971. So, five decades ago when they last had a major full-scale war

for Pakistan, that kind of an incursion deep into Punjab, which is a densely populated territory will likely sort of spur them to want to have

some sort of a tough response to what India has done as a response to what happened on April 22nd.

I will point out here, one element of this that is up for grabs is Pakistan's claim that it shot down five Indian fighter jets. If that is

true, then of course it is embarrassing for India. India may see that it needs to up the ante. If it is untrue then, of course, Pakistan may be able

to claim victory internally, but India can deny that any planes were shot down, and Pakistan may need to feel like it has to push back in some way.

So, amid all of these claims, Isa, there is a fog of war climate of misinformation and also disinformation.

SOARES: And, you know, we have -- what we do know so far, Ravi, is that French intelligence has independently confirmed that Pakistan has shot down

one plane. We have not independently been able to verify the claim that they've shot down four others.

But you -- the first point you made, Ravi, that India's gone further than ever before. How is this scene, you know, you are well placed, you are very

well sourced in India, how is this received in India? Do they feel that these measures by the population are enough? Do they think they've gone too

far?

[14:40:00]

AGRAWAL: Oh, I don't think they've gone too far. This attack on April 22nd was a very big thing for India for several reasons. One is the biggest

civilian casualty event since the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Two. Narendra Modi had promised to secure Kashmir, and tourism had grown from about a million

a year, five years ago, to 3 million this year. And this attack kind of shatters that perception of safety.

And then, I'll add a third reason. India's changed. It is a much bigger economy. It is more confident. It is people feel like enough is enough.

They can act in an unrestrained way. You know, in 2000, India's economy was four or five times bigger than Pakistan's. Today, it's nearly 11 times

bigger. So, there is a widening gap between these two countries that gives the Indian public a perception, a sense, a feeling that they should be able

to respond in a tough way.

And then, lastly, they look at what's happening in other parts of the world. So, post-October 7, Israel's defense of itself and India then uses

that as, you know, justification for it to be able to take whatever meshes it deems necessary to protect its interests.

SOARES: And you know, as we have seen, we're waiting so many world leaders calling for restraint. We know historically, Ravi, Pakistan has allied

itself with the U.S. I think you have the feet of the Soviets and Afghanistan. More recently, of course, the war in Afghanistan. India, kind

of during that Cold War period grew closer to the Soviet Union. Now, we're seeing a shift. We're seeing kind of an increasing Western military support

to India and China tend to Pakistan. How do you see these shifting alliances and the impact they might potentially have on this?

AGRAWAL: It's very interesting, Isa. So, as you noted, of course -- and you can see some of this play out in the fighter jets that they're using.

India has Russian and French fighter jets. Pakistan has American and Chinese ones. But of course, America doesn't want it currently to use its

American F16s. So, there's a sort of proxy West versus China kind of battle that's playing out amid the India-Pakistan one.

But there's an interesting change in the last few months, and that is that with the election of Donald Trump and with the sense that the United States

is less interested in foreign wars as it were, and that it sees the world as more multipolar, it wants to go its own way, that kind of opens up for

other countries this sense that we're in a world that is a realist world, that is not the old-world order. A world where America first can be counted

with India first and Pakistan first.

And so, that automatically means, Isa, that other countries they can try to mediate, but they have less leverage than they had say, five years ago.

SOARES: Yes, especially when they call for restraint, and we see very little restraint in so many wars right around the world, from Yemen to

Sudan, to Gaza. Ravi, really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming on. An incredibly currently difficult moment right now. Very tense.

We're keeping our eyes, of course, on the latest developments between India and Pakistan. Thank you, Ravi.

And still to come tonight, U.N. experts warn of escalating atrocities in Gaza as Israel's defense minister speaks out on plans to intensify the war.

We'll have the very latest next. And the seagull is back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

SOARES: And we return to Vatican City for bringing the shot that we have of the chimney. We are waiting really to see smoke be it black or white

smoke. Black smoke means there is no pope as of yet, hasn't been selected. If it's white smoke, it has -- it will mean they're a pope has been

selected. Although, on the first ballot I'm being told that anything has ever happened. So, we're keeping our eye peeled on that as are so many

others. As you can see there. The Vatican waiting for news of that first ballot to see the smoke. It is incredibly exciting moment. Of course, we'll

continue watching if the -- at the moment we see -- we shall bring that to you.

I want to turn our attention to Gaza, which is something part of the world and that the previous pope often focused on, Pope Francis. U.N. experts say

the world is at a moral crossroads and must do something now to end the bloodshed in Gaza, or witness the quote, "annihilation" of Palestinians

there.

New attacks today underscored the urgency of that warning. Palestinian officials say more than a hundred people have been killed over the past 24

hours, including children, accusing Israel of deliberately targeting civilian areas. A restaurant and schools sheltering families were among the

targets.

Those not killed by bombs could die from starvation. Many aid groups have warned of famine if Israel continues blocking aid. Israel is opening,

declaring its intent to move the entire population of Gaza south, as we told you, as it expands the war and holds onto land it conquers.

Israel's defense minister says troops won't stop until Hamas is defeated. The hostages are released and the, quote, "voluntary immigration program"

for Gaza's residents is achieved. Meantime, six European nations have issued a joint statement today saying any permanent displacement of Gaza's

population would violate international law.

But so far, no words have stopped Israel's actions. Other countries aren't speaking up much at all, or in the case of the United States, actively

backing the war. That Financial Times editorial board is condemning what it calls the West's shameful silence on Gaza, suggesting it is complicit. The

FT writes, and I'm quoting, "The U.S. and European countries that tout Israel as an ally that shares their values have issued barely a word of

condemnation. They should be ashamed of their silence, and stop enabling Netanyahu to act with impunity."

Let's get the very latest for our Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv. So, Jeremy, first of all, let's just start with this strike in Gaza. What more are you

learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, the last 24 hours have been a very deadly day in Gaza, even by the standards of what we have

grown unfortunately terribly accustomed to seeing on a daily basis.

As you said, more than a hundred people killed over the last 24 hours. 48 of those were killed, including seven children, in a pair of airstrikes

targeting two schools housing displaced Palestinians. At one of the schools in al-Bureij, in the central part of the Gaza Strip that was struck last

night, there was a large crater where people had been living and were -- this morning, we saw people searching through tents -- through the rubble,

forgive me, for survivors.

One woman at that school screamed saying Hamas should get out of schools, that they are hiding between the people. A rare show of anger at Hamas in

the aftermath of that strike. Anger, also, of course, being directed at the culprit of that attack at Israel, as Israel claims that there were

terrorists operating inside that school.

[14:50:00]

Another 15 people were killed at the -- in the al-Tifa (ph) neighborhood of Gaza City at another school that was housing displaced Palestinians. And

then, today, we saw two very deadly strikes in Gaza City, the al-Rimal neighborhood, targeting both a restaurant as well as a marketplace, killing

at least 33 people, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.

And some of the scenes that we saw from the aftermath of those strikes were not only gruesome in terms of the graphic nature of the injuries to so many

people there, but also just these absolute scenes of tragedy. I saw in one video a boy arriving to find his father motionless on the floor, and he

just starts screaming this guttural dad, dad, dad. A few meters away near that marketplace, there was a little boy lying dead on the floor with a

pink backpack still slung over his shoulders.

And of course, the attacks, the bombing that we are seeing in Gaza are only one part of an incredibly and an increasingly devastating picture that we

are seeing in Gaza. Medical facilities are shutting down in the Gaza Strip due to a lack of supplies. 13 out of 29 Palestine Red Crescent Society

clinics have now shut down. There are only 21 out of Gaza's 36 hospitals that are at least partially functioning. And then, of course, there is this

picture of the lack of food, the World Central Kitchen now announcing tonight that it will have to shut down its community kitchens due to a lack

of supplies, a lack of food in Gaza. The Gaza Strip clearly very rapidly running out of food.

Even as President Trump says today that they expect to announce this new mechanism with Israel to get aid into Gaza. This is going to take some time

to get up and running. If even these eight organizations participate as right now, they say they will not. And again, Gazans rapidly running out of

food, barreling towards potential famine at a very, very dangerous moment, a very dangerous inflection point for the strip. Isa.

SOARES: Indeed, as the U.N. warns, of course, of the annihilation of Palestinians there being at a moral crossroads, incredibly dire picture you

paint for us, Jeremy. Jeremy Diamond for us this hour, thank you very much indeed.

We're going to take a short break. We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:00]

SOARES: If you've kept me company the last hour, you've seen that we have had our eyes peeled on Vatican City right now and on that chimney where

cardinals have been gathering for the first day of the conclave to elect in new pope. And they've been gathering for just almost three hours or so for

this first ballot.

We don't expect the first ballot to actually come be white smoke. That means that we have a new pope. Most likely that it will be black spoke. But

as you can see there, St. Peter's Square, crowds have been breaking into applause at various times over this hour here as we've been on air, as they

keep an eye on that chimney.

I saw earlier that there is a monitor, there's some TVs in St. Peter Square so they can see the closeup of the chimney waiting for the smoke to biller,

of course. Seagulls have made an appearance that has had the best view without a doubt, but I've been told by Vatican Media and some 45,000 people

are now in the square waiting for that smoke.

We'll keep our eyes peeled on that. Max Foster is up next with "What We Know."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END